Sasha Grey: No Boundaries Left to Cross

Interview by IFQ Online Editor and Film Critic Todd Konrad

At a time in our modern history when boundaries of all types i.e. cultural, political, etc. seem to be breaking down positively, it’s fitting that one performer and artist, through her sheer being and will, is tackling the seemingly insurmountable task of erasing the chasm that has always existed between the adult film industry and the “mainstream” film world. In doing so, she forces us to confront our own hypocrisies about sexuality. Her name is Sasha Grey and if you don’t know of her by now, either you aren’t paying attention or won’t cop to watching one of her movies.

Since entering the industry roughly three years ago now, Grey has appeared in numerous adult productions, chalked up an impressive array of award nominations and wins including the 2008 AVN and XRCO Female Performer of the Year awards. Yet in addition to that side of her career, Sasha has been making serious inroads into popular culture as well.

A brief sampling of her other projects includes being featured on the artwork for the Smashing Pumpkins 2007 album Zeitgeist (as well as appearing in a video for their song “Superchrist”), appearing in a video for The Roots’ song “Birthday Girl”, as well as various modeling work for American Apparel, photographer Richard Kern, as well as fine artists James Jean and David Choe among others. In addition, she is a co-founder and member of the music music group aTelecine, which is recording and releasing new music, as well as offered work in mainstream, independent films in addition to her adult gigs. Her latest role, which has garnered considerable press attention, is as the lead in Steven Soderbergh’s latest film, The Girlfriend Experience, which received a sneak preview at the 25^th Sundance Film Festival. Like Andy Warhol before her, she did not seek out the mainstream’s approval; she simply planted her flag in the ground, declared her presence, and the rest of the world has been flocking to her ever since.

I recently interviewed Ms. Grey at the 2009 AEE Expo in Las Vegas, where she was promoting various adult titles she is involved with in some capacity. In person, Grey is attractive, charming, and enigmatic; her cool demeanor and sharp wit provide a welcome counterbalance to the perception that those in the adult business aren’t exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer. On the contrary, Sasha is like the cool, punk chicks you knew in high school, the girls who were smart, fun, but had no patience for fools and never backed down. And to top it all off, for a film fan and writer like myself, her extensive knowledge and appreciation of film is formidable. Talking cineaste shop with her, (both before and after our interview) was great fun as we could talk about favorite films and recommend new stuff without it devolving into a pissing contest.

Unafraid to tackle questions covering arthouse and independent cinema as well as her admiration for French New Wave legend Jean-Luc Godard among others, Sasha can walk the walk as well, if not better, than others who end up simply talking the talk when it comes to such matters. What follows is a transcript of our conversation (thankfully without the awful stripper music in the background). One other person working in cinema today who consistently and artfully challenges the division between porn and art in world-class film, besides Sasha, is French director Catherine Breillat; one can only hope that Catherine gets on the phone and gives her a call for a gig sometime soon…

IFQ: We’re here at the 2009 AVN convention speaking with the lovely Sasha Grey, located at the Digital Playground booth. To start things off, would you mind briefly discussing the projects you’re here to promote this year?

SG: Sure, I’m here promoting Babysitters and Pirates 2 which has been a huge, huge success; its been amazing to be apart of such a big movie because you don’t really get the opportunity to have that sense of camaraderie like we did on that set. Because I was on set probably all of March with roughly five days off, so it was really cool to be able to get know everybody, all the way down to the crew. And I never say the wardrobe, but even the wardrobe was amazing you know?

IFQ: It’s actually got some really amazing production value to it.

SG: Yeah definitely, it’s something that you don’t see a lot of in other big adult features, they kind of half-ass it sometimes, not everybody but sometimes you know. And Stoya: Sexy Hot is another that I’m here to promote.

IFQ: I see, well there’s been a lot of news lately regarding your role in Steven Soderbergh’s new film, The Girlfriend Experience. Relatively fresh from shooting, can you share with us any information about the film or moreover working with Soderbergh himself?

SG: He is just brilliant, I’m very weary to meet people I admire sometimes because you don’t know if they’re going to be a total asshole or a disappointment. But Soderbergh and [Factory Records founder} Tony Wilson are the two people I’ve met who just surpassed my expectations of them. I have the utmost respect for [Steven’s] process, his vision, and he was just amazing. I can’t go into too much detail about how we shot and everything because they don’t want me doing too much press for it right now unfortunately. But he is…pure genius, it was again just amazing getting the opportunity to do that. I would’ve…I mean if I had a left nut, I would have give my left nut to be in that film (laughs).

IFQ: I also see that in addition to The Girlfriend Experience, you also have roles in two other upcoming independent films, Smash Cut and Quit. Could you share with our readers some information into those movies?

SG: Well with Quit, they originally wanted me for a possible lead role but I was shooting Pirates 2 and obviously they had booked me months in advance for that so I couldn’t shoot Quit. But they did get me out to do a small bit part. [Director] Dick Rude is amazing; he’s a really fun guy, really quirky but fun to be around. I play a Goth mini-mart clerk in the middle of the desert. And Smash Cut was nothing but fun in making that movie, because if anybody knows anything about Herschel Gordon Lewis, which I actually didn’t…

IFQ: Who directed Blood Feast?

SG: …yeah, I actually didn’t know about him until about a year and a half ago, maybe a little longer than that. When I met the director Lee Demarble, he came to LA with the producer and gave me the script which I had actually read before they came down to talk about it. He said, “You know Sasha, Hershel Gordon Lewis is my Godard.” I said, “I like this guy, he speaks my language” (laughs). So I asked him to send me some of Herschel’s movies and some of his own (movies) because it’s hard to judge what you think a film will look like, feel like, or be like from just reading the script because there are so many things involved. So I wanted to see some of his films to get a feel for his style and tone. So after I watched them, I was like “this is amazing” because Canadian humor is so different, it’s like British humor you know? There are a lot of Americans who won’t get it but I ate that shit up, it was really funny. But after I saw his films, saw how they held together and then watched some of Herschel’s films I thought “Got it, brilliant.”

And then shooting that film alongside David Hess was amazing because he is one hundred percent on all the time. The crew actually made T-shirts with a picture of him from Last House on the Left, smoking a cigar, and in a crazy font it says “I’d Piss My Pants For David Hess”. Being alongside David and another amazing, amazing person, Jessie Buck. We’re kind of like sidekicks in the film; he helps me out to find my missing sister. And he’s actually a trained clown, not like the honk-honk, hoot-hoot kind, but a real clown; he schooled in Europe and Canada but lives in Ottawa and I think he just got picked up by Cirque du Soleil. He’s brilliant, and it was cool because I am more of a Method actor and he was like “psh, Method doesn’t work for theater”. It was interesting to see our styles play off each other because he was so extreme and out there and I was more reserved. But I think you have to know how to work with somebody and again the camaraderie was just amazing. So to answer your question, that was a great experience for me because again it was just so much fun to make.

IFQ: Well I have to say that one thing I admire you for is your knowledge and appreciation for film as a whole and embracing films and filmmakers that today can be a tough sell for some, like Godard or Antonioni. It’s nice meeting someone that I can talk shop with and on top of that, when I read that you had initially considered calling yourself ‘Anna Karina’ I thought “yeah that’s someone I can definitely hang out with” (laughs).

SG: (laughs) I’m glad I didn’t now but you know it was a flight of fancy, but I like my name.

IFQ: So then I’m curious to know what your thoughts are on film in general, especially when it comes to “arthouse” films which you clearly have an affinity for and which most audiences today aren’t as easily exposed to as they perhaps would have been in the past.

SG: Well that’s kind of a tough question to answer, but when I hear you say “arthouse” films it makes me think of the lack of powerful American filmmakers. I think we’ve really been lacking even though we still have (Steven) Soderbergh, David Gordon Green, obviously David Lynch. I know I’m missing a few, but overall we really are lacking and then you have these young kids who want to spend Daddy’s money and go to a nice film school. Instead, they could use the PT Anderson method and teach themselves. I mean it kind of sucks that we live in a society where going to see Quantum of Solace is considered an amazing experience. Like the production value, yes granted it looks cool but that’s all it is; it looks cool but it’s disposable.

IFQ: Let me pose this hacky question then for the hardcore film geeks out there. You’re stuck on an island and you have to pick your top three Godard films; you’re not allowed to see any others ever again…..

SG: Noooooooo! (laughs)

IFQ: It’s tough I know (laughs), but what are your picks? As a fellow Godard fan, I have to know.

SG: Vivre sa Vie…(contemplating)…Contempt, Raoul Coutard is just ridiculously talented so, I mean…aw man…and the one I can’t pronounce… La Chinoise.

IFQ: That’s pretty good.

SG: I don’t know, I mean Pierrot Le Fou has that great scene where Anna (Karina) and Jean-Paul (Belmondo) are on the beach and she turns over and says “Fuck me”. I’m like “that’s amazing, that makes me horny” you know?

IFQ: I’m a bit partial to Weekend myself, but that’s because I first saw it in college on my professor’s old VHS tape one night and was just blown away by it. But that’s a pretty damn fine list though.

SG: I want to say Bande a part but that’s too easy; at the same time though, how classic is that whole dance routine that inspired Tarantino.

IFQ: True, but again that’s still a good list you have there plus it’s hard not to note a slight resemblance to Anna Karina. Something else that I’ve been itching to ask you about is this whole notion of the crossover. The common perception in society today is that people, particularly women, get into the adult business because either they had horrible childhoods and ended up falling into it or see it as some quick shortcut to enter the mainstream. You, on the other hand, represent this entirely different facet in that you consciously entered the business with a very clear mind after careful consideration. How do you feel when people talk about your “crossover” appeal at this time for lack of a better term since you have been able to be apart of mainstream projects yet remain firmly apart of the adult business without seemingly any conflict reconciling between the two?

SG: I mean for me, it’s just about bridging the gap. I try not to look at it as two separate things but rather as great opportunities to help me continue building my brand. That’s how I look at it and I’ve been very fortunate to have people come up to me and ask me to be in their film or music video or what have you. I mean because there are women out there, starving actresses who go out to auditions every day, and they might get a commercial. So I’ve been very fortunate to have these opportunities. But at the same time, I’m not going to quote it verbatim, but Cosey Fanny Tutti said something like “my life is my art, my art is my life”. That’s definitely how I feel about what I do, even though most people don’t consider porn art. I consider my drive and ambition to be art within itself and not looking like “ok, now I’m going to go out and do this mainstream movie” and then “now I’m going to go do some big porn movie”. I really want to blend the two together and kind of be selfish and focus on my career as a whole, not as two separate entities. They’re all in one for me and that’s what it really just comes down to, being colorblind in a sense.

IFQ: That’s an intriguing answer, one that I’ll be honest and say I was hoping to hear because there’s always talk of both porn and the mainstream “crossing over” yet very few instances of it actually happening with the exception of films like Shortbus or 9 Songs. Films that are able to make the bridge between honest, frank sexuality coupled with emotional depth that are the real risk takers rather than those trying to simply titillate an audience. And in doing so, they’re actually far more honest about sexuality and human connection than scenes where people are just dry humping furiously. We know it’s fake so there’s no real connection felt between the audience and characters.

SG: I know what you’re saying, and I wish that more people could incorporate that into filmmaking in general like we’re both saying and not differentiate. But right now, I am going to have to dismiss what I just said and differentiate in that I wish more people in adult could have that more artistic approach to what they’re doing. That’s been one of my missions since day one. Trying not to be so routine like “ok, now I take off my clothes and I bend down and then I suck your c@#!!…”. That’s not how real sex is; it’s just not.

IFQ: In addition to the work you’ve done in both independent film and adult features thus far, you’ve also been involved in the fine art world, collaborating with individuals like Richard Kern, James Jean, and David Choe among others. What artists inspire you personally and creatively, moreover what sparked your interest in following art and what do you feel you gain from engaging with it in your life?

SG: Bowie and Godard are two that will never change. In the past few years I’ve really come to enjoy Miranda July’s work as well. Contemporary artists are a bit new to me, which why it was great working with Choe and James Jean, they are fresh yet innovative. I can’t differentiate the inspiration between personally and creatively, for me they are inseparable. Art is my life and without it I think I’d be a robot.
IFQ: When speaking about blurring the lines between the different worlds you work within, you remind me of both Andy Warhol and French director Catherine Breillat, who each have demonstrated that same overarching mission in their projects. Warhol with breaking down the barriers between commercial & fine art and Breillat mixing elements of serious, intellectual filmmaking with graphic depictions of sexuality (sometimes working with noted porn actor and director Rocco Siffredi). I’m curious to know if you have any affinity with either of their work and if so, what your thoughts are?

SG: Yes, I reference both quite often. I love Warhol, but there’s only one. He did have something to say and he did it well. I have acquaintances who do brilliant pop art, but they don’t sell it…it’s an interesting thing. I saw a porn girl with a Warhol bikini from Hot Topic and she didn’t even know it was a Warhol design…that aspect sucks because you have a whole generation that isn’t familiar with the significance of that movement. As a woman, I respect Breillat on many levels. I don’t think most women have the balls to even murmur the subjects she portrays on film. What fascinates me the most is that she went from being a writer to a filmmaker, grabbing the bull by the horns, so to speak, and really nurtured her art. She didn’t let anyone else misinterpret or do it for her. Only time will tell if American cinema will catch on and be comfortable with sexuality-as John Waters said it’s the only thing American films haven’t done…it’s the last thing left.

IFQ: You’ve recently released a 7″ EP with the music group aTelecine through NY label Pendu Sound. For those unfamiliar with the group, could you briefly discuss your involvement with aTelecine and the kind of material you create under its auspices?

SG: I play guitar, synth, tape loops, vocals, and write lyrics. It’s an experimental death dub noise type of project and probably not for everyone. We started this as a passion project, and don’t want to live up to anyone’s expectations-that’s what’s so fulfilling about it.
IFQ: To round things off, for the devout film enthusiasts out there, I’d like to conduct a quick cineaste Rorschach test if you will. I’m going to list off a number of filmmakers that you have listed on your Myspace page and, for each one, if you could in a brief statement share what his or her work means to you.

SG: Let me start off by saying, these are my opinions; not my interpretations of what the artist was or is trying to convey. I really hate reading reviews on films, music, or art that tell readers their opinions but they give them as fact without making educated guesses or asking the artist outright. Some critics use their education to their advantage, and others use it to manipulate the masses that are naive to filmmaking (music, art) as an art form rather than simple entertainment.

IFQ: Fair enough, actually stating that your opinion is simply that and not gospel is a lesson many critics, both veterans and upstarts, should at least bear in mind at the end of the day when they’re words go out to the masses. On that note, let’s begin: Michelangelo Antonioni.

SG: His work visually never disappoints yet the subject matter is simple; it’s like Martin Hannet’s production, faster but slower! His films aren’t traditionally made and it makes you wonder why American cinema at large never understood the beauty of simplicity. They represent montages of real life without pushing opinions down the viewer’s throat.

IFQ: Lars Von Trier and Dogme95 in general.

SG: For me, and I’m sure many people, he is the heir to Carl Dreyer. Dogme95 obviously was a time of tongue and cheek reference to the French New Wave. People can say that the movement is pretentious, because audiences are already familiar with the French New Wave, but they didn’t deny that they were borrowing from it-they openly shared a great appreciation. Although I have read up on some awful “Dogme 95” films, and the filmmaker thinks because they have this certificate, if you will, they are innovative. It’s like punk rock, it was great while it lasted, produced great stuff…but a large part of the commercial “followers” missed the ideology. When Dogme 95 became a genre, it died.

IFQ: Werner Herzog.

SG: The other German who’s not prototypically German, like (Rainer Werner) Fassbinder. His spirit can make any man or woman feel worthless, he has no tolerance for excuses or complacency when it comes to art.

IFQ: Gaspar Noe.

SG: Fuck Yes!

IFQ: David Gordon Green.

SG: I see a lot of influence from Malick’s films, but I like to say he has a “Southern Gothic” style to his films. He’s incredibly unpretentious and one of the few great contemporary American filmmakers…I didn’t see Pineapple Express though.

IFQ: Hiroshi Teshigahara.

SG: I’ve actually only seen the documentary Antonio Gaudi, but that alone made me love his work. It’s tricky to document a subject or art form you like without making a shitty film that feels more like a home movie.

IFQ: Gus Van Sant.

SG: I’m more of a fan of his independent, intimate films-but I don’t hate him for some of the more commercial work he’s done. Even when the subjects are quite cold you feel enveloped and warm.

IFQ: Bernardo Bertolucci.

SG: Ahhh the baby at the tail end of a revolutionary time in cinema; all of his work even when small feels epic. He uses what he was taught but delivers something unique and different apart from his peers.

IFQ: Terrence Malick

SG: Refined cinematic patience.

IFQ: The Criterion Collection (not a person yes, but it’s importance via the films they release)

SG: They are a fierce education system for young filmmakers, critics, and cineastes. Using laser disc, dvd, and now the internet to bring quality and education into mass public consciousness. I have been turned on to so many great films just because of Criterion.

IFQ: And finally Godard of course.

SG: I actually just saw Made in USA for the first time the other night; Godard never disappoints. He uses his art to convey his passions in erratic, hilarious, sad, and visually stimulating ways without the worry or burden of what other people think of him. He’s an incredible inspiration to me and my art, he never says die!

For more information and news on Sasha Grey, go to www.sashagrey.com and www.myspace.com/sashagrey

To read IFQ’s review of The Girlfriend Experience, click here

*Photos Courtesy of Ian Cinnamon